The Book of Mormon on Grace

While the Book of Mormon, like the Bible, repeatedly calls upon man to repent and obey God, the charge to keep the commandments must be understood in terms of the infinite grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, who offers us forgiveness of sins and eternal law if we will have faith in Him and accept His covenant of mercy, which involves the choice to repent and follow Him. The foundation of salvation by grace is laid out by Lehi, a wise philosopher-prophet in the 6th century B.C. Here is an excerpt from his very philosophical discourse in 2 Nephi 2:

4 … And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

9 Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.

The full benefits of the Atonement of Christ are offered to those who seek to accept Christ. These are those who are humble and contrite, who believe in Christ. That this should involve seeking to keep His commandments in no way implies that they earn this infinite gift of grace or no longer need grace. It’s simply accepting the gift under the conditions of the covenant Christ offers.

Wonderfully, part of the power of the Atonement and the grace of Christ is the gift of freedom to choose. We are given the power to choose God and Christ, or to reject them. That choice involves our response to the commandments God gives us and our willingness to repent or not (this is where humility and contriteness are essential). Read all of Lehi’s discourse, but here are some of his concluding words:

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be hmiserable like unto himself.

28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;

29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.

Believe in Christ and seek to make Him our Lord by repenting and living His teachings, growing steadily in Him and relying daily on the infinite grace that He offers.

Author: Jeff Lindsay

68 thoughts on “The Book of Mormon on Grace

  1. Whoa. Just saw this post immediately after publishing a VERY SIMILARLY themed post on my own blog! Certainly the Book of Mormon has many gems on Grace that I feel are often under-appreciated among latter-day saints. My thoughts on the subject for the evening:

    "Grace and Godly Sorrow"

    My best,

    Obadiah

  2. It really is amazing that Jesus Christ has infinite grace upon us all.

    I've learned a lot on grace from Stephen Robinson's book " Believing Christ : A Practical Approach to the Atonement ".

    Truly the Book of Mormon sheds light when in comes to the doctrine of grace.

  3. Okay, hang on. I've never fully understood this concept.

    So the Evvie concept of grace is being saved by faith alone. The Mormon stance on it is that His grace plays a huge role, but works are still required and not just faith.

    Right?

  4. Openminded, I would say that the Mormon concept is that real faith causes someone to accept what is asked by Christ and strive to act on their stated belief in Christ. Iow, real faith is a motivator to act, but it's still the underlying grace that makes the actions worth anything at all.

    This is taught so many times in the Gospels and the rest of the NT that it's almost impossible to argue otherwise, imo. "If ye love me, keep my commandments" probably is the most direct, but there are many more.

    Iow, those who say they have faith but do nothing to try to keep his commandments might "accept Jesus as Lord and Master" but they don't really love Him – since they don't try to keep his commandments. It's like saying, "I love you, Dad, and I think you are all-wise and knowing and caring – but go jump off a cliff. I'm not going to try to do what you ask me to do." Yeah, that's recognition of his role and a verbal expression of love, but it sure isn't real love.

  5. “Faith alone” is a dead concept. That is not just LDS thinking that is Biblical. As soon as you attempt to separate faith and works you end up with neither. One without the other is dead.

    Because there was an atonement through Christ on our behalf, then there can be salvation for us, otherwise we were forever lost no matter what we did. If we believe in Christ and his atonement, then we will take up our cross and follow him. But to believe in him and to follow him, we must have faith. But we cannot claim any faith if we do not keep his commandments.

    Neither our faith or our obedience is perfect, but the two must work together if we are to have any chance at being lifted from our fallen state through the atonement, because one without the other is less than imperfect, it is nothing.

    Though there is no saving power to either faith or works, to accept that faith is essential to salvation is to accept that works is essential to salvation, for you cannot separate the two and be left with anything.

  6. Openminded, I was confused for a long time about this as well. Not about the necessity of works per se, but of how to explain it to those who thought faith was all that was needed. It has and will be an on-going debate I'm afraid.

    The simplest explanation I've found, and the one that makes the most sense to me given what the scriptures say about it, is just what Jeff wrote: " That this should involve seeking to keep His commandments in no way implies that they earn this infinite gift of grace or no longer need grace. It's simply accepting the gift under the conditions of the covenant Christ offers."

    As the Great Mediator and our Advocate with the Father, Christ has certainly told us what He expects us to do in order to gain Eternal Life (which, to us, is more than mere immortality). That it is something out of the reach of anything we can do of ourselves is made quite clear. Nevertheless, He has offered us condtions we can handle, and has left it up to us to choose.

    The concept of conditional acceptance of gifts or trusts or any number of things is common in this life. It is no different with the Atonement.

    He stands at the door and knocks. At the very least, we have to open it and let Him in.

  7. Jeff,

    Nice post. Beautiful scripture passage. I can't say that I disagree with anything in the passage.

    Openminded,

    The evangelical stance is that we are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ. Our works don't justify us. Our works are evidence of our faith in Christ, which is why James says faith without works is dead. Unfortunately, many evangelicals believe in what is called cheap grace. This position states that a person merely has to say they believe in Jesus and then live their lives without obeying God. This is a total misapplication of God's word to us.

    As for works being required, I think I differ from the LDS position in that I don't believe they are required for justification. (Maybe we do agree…I'm just not real sure about that.) But, they are the fruit of our faith in Christ.

    I have concluded that we don't have to be in agreement on how it all works. From my perspective, anyone who claims the risen Christ as their Redeemer and Savior, then shows forth good works as evidence of that faith, is indeed saved in God's Kingdom.

    The bottom line is that our redemption and salvation are dependent solely on the merits of Jesus Christ, and I think this BOM passage supports that. This does not, however,excuse us from good works.

    Blessings…

  8. It still sounds a bit like you're earning the grace in Mormonism. Fulfilling conditions before receiving a "gift" means you've earned the gift, really.

    Wait….what do you guys refer to when you say grace?

    It almost sounds like, in Mormonism, the grace part is Christ lowering the standards (which should be much, much higher).

    (and thanks for your guys' input. jackg, it's nice to see an Evvie not think Mormons are going to Hell)

  9. Openminded, I think you have it right- the Mormon stance is that works are required.

    2 Nephi 25:23, "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

    After all we can do we are saved? That, my friend, is work-based salvation.

    The third Article of Faith confirms 2 Nephi in that… “We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel”.

    It's a very different concept of salvation than a Bible-based Christian perspective.

    Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

    Romans 3:23, 28: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; …Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Does that mean that a Christian can just say "I believe that Jesus is my savior", and continue to sin with abandon? Of course not. Not if he truly desires to follow Christ. I get this from Paul in Romans 6 (all of it) but read verses 14-15, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

    My point is that we don't need the BOM. The foundation of salvation by grace is laid out by Lehi… No- it's laid out by the apostle Paul.

  10. Honestly, based purely off the writings of Paul, Steve has a completely valid point.

    Paul (though Ephesians may have been written by a follower instead of Paul himself) is markedly faith alone.

    He'd probably disagree with James, but if we stick with Paul–salvation by grace alone, with no need for the conditions, is laid out in full

  11. "Paul (though Ephesians may have been written by a follower instead of Paul himself) is markedly faith alone."

    No, he's not. He's anything but a proponent of passive faith alone. It's works alone (faith-less or "dead" works) that he condemns as useless.

    Read Hebrews 11 – the entire chapter that is Paul's capstone statement on faith. There are lots of other references, but that chapter alone is enough to show that he saw faith as active and empowering – as a motivating belief that caused people to act. That's the central issue here – a bastardization of definition in the most fundamental sense.

    It's really important in this discussion, imo, to use the Gospels and Hebrews 1 as the foundation of Paul's teachings about faith, grace and works. Without that foundation, the very definition of "faith" changes radically – and produces the type of misunderstanding illustrated here in this thread. There is a very simple, very consistent message with that foundation – but it gets lost really easily when individual verses and passages get taken out of that foundation, isolated and interpreted alone. Faith, without works, is dead, being alone – but, likewise, works, without faith, is dead, being alone. Iow, "faith without works" isn't true "faith" – but merely verbal belief statement or hopeless human effort.

    Finally, even if Paul really did preach faith / grace without works (which, again, he doesn't in any way), I'd still think Christians would value the words of Jesus, of Nazareth, over Paul – and Jesus clearly taught the need for "following in obedience" (faith fueled fruit).

  12. Different passages of scripture appear to say contradictory things about faith and works. Reminds me of the dilemma faced by physicists at the turn of the last century. Newtonian physics asserted that the measured speed of light would differ based on the relative velocity of source and observer, but when measurements were taken the data disagreed with the theory. The apparent contradiction was resolved when Einstein created a mathematical superset that showed Newtonian physics to be sufficiently precise in most cases, but that reality is more complex than suggested by Newton's Laws.

    The grace / works contention can also be resolved with a more complex model, one that agrees with all of the scriptural teachings about the Atonement.

    The overly-simplistic model represents salvation as a one-dimensional problem: at point A is fallen man; at point B is salvation; and the line that bridges the gap between the two is the pathway to salvation. Some argue that Christ alone can bridge the gap between A and B. Some argue that man can – and must – do some of the effort, and Christ does the rest. But because the model is too simple, it's a meaningless argument.

    A more realistic model shows salvation as a two-dimensional model, with fallen man at the lower left corner of a rectangle, and exaltation at the upper right corner of the rectangle. In this model, Christ does all the vertical work – the heavy lifting. Man does the horizontal work. Together they move one from a fallen state to an exalted state. Man cannot do any of the vertical work – it is an impossibility. God will not / cannot do the horizontal work – it would violate our agency. So, in this model, grace is a free gift that man can neither earn nor do himself, AND works are required for exaltation.

    If you think this is an impossible model, recall how fixed-wing aircraft fly. The propeller provides no lift whatsoever – lift comes from the wings. But unless the aircraft is moved forward by the propeller, the wings are useless.

  13. Openminded, the hangup seems to be whether works are required at all. It seems obvious that they are, since faith is required and true faith is accompanied by works. It is simple enough to find separate passages of scripture that mention one without the other, but following that strategy one could make the Bible say anything they want it to.

    We may not be able to earn grace, but there are things Christ has said we must do to accept what He offers. How else can we show Him we accept it unless we do those things?

  14. Steve, why you say we don't need the BoM? I mean, upon what grounds? People have gotten by before without cars, computers, and cellphones, so in the strictest sense we don't need those either. In fact, millions of people still don't have any of those things (though I wouldn't want to live where they do).

    But those things certainly can help us along in those areas of the world that have the infrastructure that they were designed to be used in.

    Let's consider the general state of those who have 'only' the Bible – how many different ways do they understand the same passages of scripture, or how many of them even use the same version of translation? Even among those who claim belief in the BoM there are divisions, likewise the D&C. (The answer to avoiding confusion is on-going revelation, but that's not the point of my post.)

    Why would anyone say we should reject a body of information when what we desperately need is more information, not less?

  15. Pops, I like your two-dimensional model. It makes sense.

    Salvation is a free gift because we can't earn it. That is to say, there is no way we can come up with the full price. But that doesn't mean it won't cost us anything.

    Some of the confusion where LDS doctrine is concerned is that some of the benefits of the Atonement are understood by us to be unconditional – resurrection, for instance, will be enjoyed by ALL who kept their first estate (all those who have been or will be born with a physical body on the earth).

    After that, Paul's great writing on the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15) tells us that there will be different "glories" in the resurrection, and elsewhere in the Bible Christ speaks of "many mansions" in His Father's house.

    I believe that part of the purpose for obeying the commandments is to condition us, to prepare us, for where we will end up based on the degree to which we have been obedient – or what we have become with what was given us to work with (hence the Parable of the Talents).

    "Salvation" means different things to different people, but I've only ever heard the LDS speak of "exaltation."

    Do any non-LDS belief systems incorporate differing "degrees" of salvation?

  16. PapaD,
    It's been largely accepted by scholarship that Hebrews was not written by Paul. I don't know why everyone keeps assuming this, there's not even a solid basis to go off of (much unlike his other books).

    Paul made plenty of statements about the efficacy of belief and faith in his writings, and at the very most, specified baptism as all that was needed (and even that part is hard to pin down) to share in the Resurrection of Jesus.

    Where did this "Paul wrote Hebrews" idea come from?

  17. jackg and Pops, You both have one of the best expansions of the two ideas of salvation (faith alone and synthetic respectively). Thank you both so much for sharing.

  18. As I read through the comment I think the breakdown or difference may be in how the words grace, faith and works are being used.

    It seems to me that grace and faith are being used interchangeably which would signify that they have the same meaning.

    When the phrase “grace alone” and “faith alone” are used is everyone understanding these to mean the same thing? Perhaps we need definitions to each of these words to make sure they are being discussed with the same understanding.

  19. Does anyone take exception to the following? “Grace is a gift that we have access to through our faith in Jesus Christ”. Here the two words grace and faith have different meanings. If we interchange them does the sentence still mean the same thing? Faith is a gift that we have access to through our grace in Jesus Christ.

  20. PapaD,

    I like, "faith fueled fruit." That would make a great t-shirt, seriously!! And, I believe this simple, three-word alliteration hits the nail on the head. Works are the result of our faith; our faith is the fuel for those works. Brilliant, PapaD! (BTW, I'd be the first to buy the t-shirt.)

    Pops,

    I think I will always differ from LDS teaching regarding salvation and exaltation. I will never believe that man will be exalted and become a god. Ultimately, I no longer believe this to be a wedge between myself and LDS Christians. Believing in it or not believing in it, in my opinion, will not be the determining factor of whether or not I dwell eternally in the presence of our Heavenly Father.

    (PS Pops…I know we have had our share of heated discussions, so I hope you are able to sense the change in my tone in my response to you. Your explanation expertly addresses what you believe and why. The fact that I don't agree with it doesn't make your point any less valid. 🙂 )

    Ken,

    I like what you said about changing out "grace" and "faith" in the sentence you presented for us to think about. I think it works. Ultimately, Christ is the source of everything for us–even our faith in Him.

    It's my prayer that we don't let different schools of thought separate us from the basic truth that we believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as in Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is, ultimately, the path we are all on. And, I rejoice in that!

    Peace…

  21. By the grace of God, my faith is all that is required for salvation. And I’m not talking about the “unconditional resurrection” concept that has no Biblical foundation. But that’s a topic for another post as well.

    Pops, I don’t agree with your two-dimensional model. The faith-works debate IS very simple. Your one-dimensional model is Biblical. Why is simple a bad thing? Because that’s exactly what happens; Christ bridges the gap between sinful man and salvation. His sacrifice for us on the cross is all that is needed. To say that man has to earn even part of his salvation is to nullify Christ’s sacrifice and resurrection.

    When Christ says “be ye perfect”, it is an exhortation to strive to be perfect in God’s love. He knows that man cannot be perfect in this life. If men could be perfect, there would have been no need for His sacrifice/resurrection.

    Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work”. By earning or working for “progression” you are saying that the grace of God is not enough, that Jesus died for nothing. I am not saying that good works should not happen, or that we should not try to follow God’s laws. By our faith, good works will follow. But they are not *required* for salvation.

    When Christ told the parable about the workers in the vineyard in Matthew 20:1-16, THAT was his point- He has the right to award “salvation” to anyone, regardless of how much work they’ve done. Workers who had only worked an hour got paid just as much as those that had worked all day. The same can be said for the malefactor on the cross next to Christ, as in Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise”. That malefactor had done no “work” to earn anything other than trust that Christ was the Savior. Yes Jesus said that was enough. He didn’t say, “OK, but before I see you in paradise, you have to tithe, attend services regularly, be married in a temple, be baptized…you have to do some work.” Believing (faith) is enough. Works follow faith.

    There are levels of Christian maturity, as illustrated by Jesus’ parable about the sower in Mark 4 “some fell upon stony ground”, etc. Some who profess Christianity are not always good examples of that. But that is our daily struggle; to live in a more Christ-like manner.

    When James says in chapter 2 verse 26: “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”, it does not conflict with Paul’s writings. Good works do not earn us anything. If we have faith that is alive and active, if we study God’s word and endeavor to follow his commandments, even though we know we cannot fully do so, good works follow that faith.

    Bearby, you can’t liken cars, computers, etc. to the BOM. You don’t need more information; God’s inspired Word is in the Bible. I can’t accept the BoM as God’s inspired word, when I consider its author (you probably call him a translator) and all of his false prophesies.

    1 Corinthians 15:40, “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.” Where is the mention of telestial?

    But, back to the topic- the BoM on Grace. The 2 Nephi 25:23 , “after all you can do”, 1 Nephi 3:7 “the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing…”, Mosiah 4:30, “if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish.” These BoM passages say that salvation depends on works, as does the Third Article of Faith, and the counterpoints brought up by some comments. A works-based salvation is not Biblical.

  22. The faith-works debate IS very simple. Your one-dimensional model is Biblical.

    It's only Biblical if one explains away numerous passages whose obvious meaning contradicts the philosophy of salvation without works. You also need to find a pattern of Christ promoting salvation without works. But there isn't one.

    When Christ says “be ye perfect”, it is an exhortation to strive to be perfect in God’s love.

    No, it's an injunction to become perfect even as the Father is perfect. At least that's what he said.

    He has the right to award “salvation” to anyone, regardless of how much work they’ve done. Workers who had only worked an hour got paid just as much as those that had worked all day.

    Curiously, they all worked.

  23. (I wish I could post diagrams…)

    The 2D model of salvation, with fallen man at the lower left corner, has a range of outcomes across the top line. To the far left, directly above "fallen man", lies Telestial salvation. No works are required to get here. One does not even need to acknowledge Christ in this life. Sin away! (Just kidding – you'll regret it if you do.)

    Somewhere in the middle of the top line is Terrestrial salvation. People who end up here have given some, but not all.

    At the far right end of the top line lies Celestial salvation, for those who have given all.

    So if you turn the 2D model and view it edge-on, it's the simplistic 1D salvation model. At the top is a curious mish-mash of salvations all jumbled together. But when viewed as a 2D model, it all makes sense and agrees with all of the scriptural passages dealing with salvation.

  24. He didn’t say, “OK, but before I see you in paradise, you have to tithe, attend services regularly, be married in a temple, be baptized…you have to do some work.”

    Of course, paradise isn't salvation, as explained in Alma 40.

    Works follow faith.

    Well of course. That's like saying circles are round.

    How do we increase our faith? A good method is by doing good works. That way we can know through experience that the works we've done, the commandments we've obeyed, are in fact good, and that God can be trusted.

  25. Steve, if "unconditional resurrection" has no biblical basis, what is to be understood by the passage in 1 Corinthians 15:22 – "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

  26. "By the grace of God, my faith is all that is required for salvation."

    So it is God’s grace and our faith that together bring about salvation?

    "When Christ says “be ye perfect”, it is an exhortation to strive to be perfect in God’s love."

    Who are we to apply a meaning different from the actual words of Jesus that were recorded? When told to do something, then turn it around and say, well he didn’t really mean that, he just meant to try. That sounds like a big leap of private interpretation.

    For me when Jesus says to do something, I am better off focusing on how to do it rather than justifying myself by adding words to his.

  27. I love the reference to the sermon on the mount passage. It shows that we as humans can really mess things up, creating camps that divide us, and getting into the debate of who is right or wrong. I praise the Lord that He has caused me to grow weary of this bickering. It does no one any good.

    In my opinion, LDS live lives that bring honor to God. For the most part, they are a compassionate people. I do not agree with most of LDS doctrines, but from a theological standing, the core belief that makes us saved followers of Jesus is that Jesus indeed came to the earth to save us. AND, He does expect us to obey Him as a sign of our faith in Him.

    In an exegetical study of the last pericope of Matthew 5, I learned that the context is love. Jesus is talking about loving our enemies. John Wesley describes Christian perfection as being perfect in love. We sing "O, Holy Night" with the words: "His law is love, and His gospel is peace." John Wesley also teaches that we CAN become perfect in love in this life, that we DON'T have to sin. But, he also expresses the caveat that we as human beings will make mistakes–mistakes are not inherently sinful.

    Personally, I don't agree with President Kimball's teaching on perfection as expressed in "The Miracle of Forgiveness." There will be lots of people who don't agree with me regarding the teachings of John Wesley on the subject. So what! Ultimately, these issues will fade away into the distance when we come face to face with our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    Theology must be divided into three categories: 1. dogma, which consists of those things one absolutely needs to believe in order to be identified as a follower of Jesus, and this category should be small; 2. doctrine, which identifies beliefs one must hold to in order to be a member of a certain group of believers, i.e. Baptists, Nazarenes, LDS, ets.; 3. opinion, which is the broadest category and covers things such as baptism as necessary to salvation (this is not only a hot topic between LDS and certain evangelical denominations, but within evangelical Christianity itself), etc.

    In my journey, I went from LDS to Christian/non-LDS to Christian/anti-LDS to follower of Jesus Christ. I am no longer anti-LDS even though I do not agree with much of LDS teachings. What we share in common is our faith in Jesus Christ and the desire to obey Him, to bring Him honor, and to live our lives in a way that shows the world that we indeed have the true and living God in our lives.

    I think I'm beginning to sound a bit like a broken record, but I am passionate about conquering divisiveness within the body of Christ.

    Peace and blessings…

  28. Steve;

    My point is that we don't need the BOM. The foundation of salvation by grace is laid out by Lehi… No- it's laid out by the apostle Paul.

    And what if Lehi and Paul were on the same page as far as salvation goes? I do not find anything I Lehi's writings which contradict Paul's writings.

    As for faith alone, it's not biblical. You yourself, as do many Evangelicals it seems, argue that faith is all that is needed and then argue that works are needed to be saved.

    Does that mean that a Christian can just say "I believe that Jesus is my savior", and continue to sin with abandon? Of course not. Not if he truly desires to follow Christ.

    That's exactly what Mormons believe.

  29. Openminded;

    Allow me to show where you pretty much invalidate your own statement that Mormonism *may* be wrong in its theology. You said (bold mine):

    He'd probably disagree with James, but if we stick with Paul–salvation by grace alone, with no need for the conditions, is laid out in full

    fortunately, we don't have "Paul alone" in the scriptures; just like we do not have "faith alone" in the scritures. Paul was only speaking about one side ofthe salvation coin. The other saide is read in, as you pointed out, the Book of James as well as in other passages ofthe scriptures.

  30. Pops;

    A more realistic model shows salvation as a two-dimensional model, with fallen man at the lower left corner of a rectangle, and exaltation at the upper right corner of the rectangle. In this model, Christ does all the vertical work – the heavy lifting. Man does the horizontal work. Together they move one from a fallen state to an exalted state. Man cannot do any of the vertical work – it is an impossibility. God will not / cannot do the horizontal work – it would violate our agency. So, in this model, grace is a free gift that man can neither earn nor do himself, AND works are required for exaltation.

    If you think this is an impossible model, recall how fixed-wing aircraft fly. The propeller provides no lift whatsoever – lift comes from the wings. But unless the aircraft is moved forward by the propeller, the wings are useless.

    Absolutely genius.

  31. bearyb;

    People have gotten by before without cars, computers, and cellphones, so in the strictest sense we don't need those either.

    People got by without computers? Such savagery.

    In fact, millions of people still don't have any of those things

    Milions of people don't have computers? Such savages!

    ;>)

    In all due serousness, modern technology is a blessing and I wouldn't want to live without them either.

    Good comparison.